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Tuesday 3 March 2015

Gail Cousart Turner February 28 at 8:44am Okay, I have a concern, and I wondered if any of you share it? Recently, I've been seeing a lot about Pits being used for "Service dogs". There was one that a young boy needed to take to school with him. Although I definitely agree that if a service dog is needed, it should by all means be allowed everywhere, but a Pit in a school with children?


Gail Cousart Turner
February 28 at 8:44am
Okay, I have a concern, and I wondered if any of you share it? Recently, I've been seeing a lot about Pits being used for "Service dogs". There was one that a young boy needed to take to school with him. Although I definitely agree that if a service dog is needed, it should by all means be allowed everywhere, but a Pit in a school with children? This frightens me beyond the extreme. I realize they are "trained" but, if all our efforts are mandated, it would mean training or no training, their instinct is still intact, correct? They will have to be allowed everywhere, and this I have a problem with. I am very grateful I don't have a child that attends that school! Thoughts?
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  • 14 people like this.
  • Jane Kelly as a parent of a child that has been savaged i would immediately remove my child from any school that allowed pit bulls in . whats wrong with training smaller less violent dogs as service dogs .
    February 28 at 8:53am · Like · 12
  • Myranya Werlemann It's come up several times in recent times... sometimes it's even questionable whether a service dog is needed (apparently there is little or no control of the actual training of some types of service dog, especially the 'emotional support animal') and service dog gear is available online for anyone who cares to spend the money to order it, without any proof the dog has received _any_ training whatsoever. I haven't seen this problem so much in my country, the service dogs I'm seeing (guide dogs for the blind mostly, some that provide other services) are goldens, labs, and GSD's, or mixes of these. Service dogs, great for those who need it but without any requirement for any proof, too many people abuse this!
    February 28 at 9:05am · Like · 3
  • Gail Cousart Turner Exactly, Myranya, and that's what bothers me. This is bad for everyone concerned, especially a disabled person who needs a legitimate service dog. Very frustrating. I am hard-of-hearing, and although I do not right now have a hearing dog because I have 2 dogs (schnoodles) that are not trained, but they are 12 years old) Someday, I would like a hearing dog, because I really need one. Although, I probably wouldn't take it to a restaurant.
    February 28 at 9:09am · Like · 3
  • Isabella Marie I am a service dog owner. She is my seizure alert dog for my epilepsy. She is a Miniature PInscher. I am highly active in the service dog community, and in service dog groups both on FB and in the real world. I am DISGUSTED by the amount of people who have Pit/Pit mixes as service dogs. They are endangering the public to a higher degree than even your average Pit owner. And if a word is said questioning the use of a Pit as a service dog, you are swiftly shunned and banned from groups and hated in the real world. It's pathetic and it's quite frightening. Many times people have Pits as "service dogs" have them for psychiatric reasons. Also known as bullshit. Emotional support dogs (ESA's) are NOT service dogs, and do not have the same rights under the law. And dogs used for PTSD can be recognized as service dogs, IF the PTSD is so bad that it keeps the person from functioning and the dog mitigates that disability. I don't want to argue about the validity of service dogs for mental issues. Rather am interested in knowing why sooooo many mental disability service dogs, are Pits. It's getting worse every day
    February 28 at 9:34am · Edited · Like · 16
  • AJ Ravinsky Isabella Marie Maybe because pit bull fans can fake a mental illness easier than they can a physical one?
    February 28 at 9:31am · Like · 8
  • Isabella Marie Haha, very true!
    February 28 at 9:35am · Like · 2
  • AJ Ravinsky ...though a lot of pit owners I've run into might not be faking it...lol
    February 28 at 9:38am · Like · 2
  • Mikky Treichel A Rottweiler would make a better service dog than a Pit bull. Remember Carl, the Rottweiler?
    February 28 at 9:39am · Like
  • Dawn Dalyce this says it all....If the pit is not wearing a muzzle...my kids would leave immediately
    February 28 at 9:42am · Like · 6
  • Stu Mahaffey My kids would be out of there
    February 28 at 9:44am · Like · 3
  • Jamie Carter Park I always thought most service dogs were bred, carefully bred, for the job. Bred and then trained and socialized before they even left they litter. 
    I mean depending on the job. 
    Now we don't seem to have that. 
    Every breed of dog is good at certain things. 
    But I thought the breed was also kind of a "uniform" so people would see it and say "oh yeah. There is a seeing eye dog alright."
    February 28 at 9:47am · Like · 3
  • Jan Segura Comeaux I have a question about Service Dogs, are they to be protect the person as well? My concern with Pitts as service dogs in schools for small children, (any children) what happens if another child is playing with the child and makes a wrong move, i.e. aggressive, playful, could the service dog go into protection mode? Also I agree with Isabella Marie regarding emotional support dogs and that it's BS!
    February 28 at 9:48am · Like · 4
  • Isabella Marie Service dogs aren't there to "protect" in that sense. If a dog shows any form of aggression they can immediately be made to leave, for so much as a growl.
    February 28 at 9:53am · Like · 3
  • Jan Segura Comeaux Thank you Isabella, I don't know much about them, that's why I asked. While I'm at it, do you know how a service dog helps someone with PTSD?
    February 28 at 9:54am · Like
  • Mikky Treichel Isabella Marie I didn't know small dogs could be service dogs.
    February 28 at 10:00am · Like · 2
  • Isabella Marie Jan, they are supposed to calm down and comfort the handler during a panic attack or supposedly let them know before they have one. But that's part of the definition of any dog in general. Any pet really. They comfort people, that's why we gave pets, to enjoy them. It's open to interpretation to some degree with PTSD service dogs.
    February 28 at 10:08am · Like · 2
  • Jan Segura Comeaux I see. That explains why my Min Pin can sense when something is wrong with me, especially if I am quitely crying or stressed out!!
    February 28 at 10:10am · Like · 1
  • Isabella Marie Mikky, any breed or breed mix can be a service dog. The reason we have traditionally seen Labs, Goldens, and German Shepherds is because they are easy to train and smart, without being overly high energy like a Birder Collie for instance. But the law says any breed or mix, and different breeds can be better at different tasks. Dogs with a more refined sense of smell for instance, tend to be more likely to smell the chemical change that takes place in the brain before a seizure, or to smell drops or rises in blood sugar for those with diabetes
    February 28 at 10:12am · Edited · Like · 6
  • Jan Segura Comeaux Wow, that is amazing! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
    February 28 at 10:12am · Like · 2
  • Mikky Treichel Isabella Marie Thanks. I have a JRT and she's tough to train, plus it's probably really expensive.
    February 28 at 10:13am · Like · 1
  • Isabella Marie You have a Pin too?! I just adore the breed! They think they rule the world. I have 4. My eldest is my service dog though.
    February 28 at 10:13am · Like
  • Mikky Treichel Isabella Marie Yeah, my Lucy has a lot of energy.
    February 28 at 10:14am · Like · 1
  • Isabella Marie HAHAHAHA, oh Jack Russell's! Sooooo much energy! They never stop going!
    February 28 at 10:15am · Like · 1
  • Jan Segura Comeaux Lol, yes you are so right Isabella Marie, I call her a needy, greedy, bossy bi$Ch. She's very smart though and wants attention ALL THE TIME!!!
    February 28 at 10:15am · Like · 1
  • Isabella Marie Haha, yep! That sums them up perfectly! It's their way or the highway. And in that case they just make it their way
    February 28 at 10:17am · Like · 2
  • Cheryl Brown The public duty of a PTSD dog is to provide tactile stimulation to disrupt the overload when it's human partner starts to have a flashback or other anxiety related reaction creating reality affirmation. They may lick the face, nudge the person, or other behaviors that force the person to pay attention to the dog and help them focus on the here and now. Often they will also move between their person and others to help make their person feel more secure, safe. This is done in a non threatening manner, their job is not protection, merely to act as a buffer between the person and what may trigger them. At home they will sleep in front of doors to allay hypervigilance and wake their person if they have a nightmare and turn on lights to help their person to help them ground back in the present. They may also be trained to alert the person when it is time for them to take medications and can also be trained to call an emergency number on a specially designed phone.
    February 28 at 10:24am · Like · 5
  • Laurie Anne In my view, its a bit of a fad. Really - doctors have tried every remedy - drugs, therapy, behavioral rehabbed - and think a dog is best? The ADA laws are lax, or rather, are full of loop holes that they are being exploited. I am not sure what these dogs are trained for, and how they are trained, but the standards do not seem to be strict. In practice, $64 gets you a piece of paper and a badge that says your dog is a service dog, with a letter from a psychologist who may or may not be licensed, who may have talked to you, or talked to a staff member who talked to you over the phone.
    February 28 at 11:10am · Like · 3
  • Isabella Marie Very true Laurie! The laws are way too lax, and because the law says no service dog has to have a "certification" of any kind, they can get away with slapping a vest on their dog, and taking it everywhere and anywhere, no questions asked. Especially for 
    "hidden diseases" like epilepsy and diabetes, etc. The laws need to be tightened. And like AJ said, they can play the "service dog" card to be able to have/keep their Pits in situations that do not allow Pits, like BSL communities.
    February 28 at 11:22am · Like · 4
  • Mikky Treichel Hey, if any of you would like to join my dog group on facebook, you're more than welcome, just send me a friend request. I won't spam here.
    February 28 at 11:24am · Like
  • Cheryl Brown Yes, there are a lot of fake "service dogs" that received "documentation" from a web site. This does not discount the value a real service dog gives to someone who needs one. They can mean the difference between never being able to walk out the door and living a productive life. Rather than discounting all PTSD dogs I think it would be better to get legislation regulating the service dog industry with stiff penalties for both the owner passing a fake off and the people that help them do it.
    February 28 at 11:24am · Like · 3
  • Laurie Anne For my part, I would never take my dog where he was not welcome; if I were asked to leave, I would. Given the rise of incidents in public places, I no longer go to "where the pets go," and avoid rescue events. I grew up when "service dogs" meant companions for the blind (GSD/labs); the dogs were invisible. I personally would choose to leave a restaurant or business if there were "service dogs" that made me uncomfortable, and would never go back, I personally feel that "service dogs" need to be more strictly defined by ADA, and their behavior needs to be perfect - no growling, total obedience - instead of unconditionally forcing it on private businesses without standards.
    February 28 at 11:24am · Like · 4
  • Eve Sylvie The VA cancelled a PTSD dog program citing lack of evidence that it works but they written in their program "no pit bulls" or other similar breeds.
    February 28 at 1:26pm · Like · 1
  • Lesley Karen Luscombe Huge and controversial subject - I have one comment to make on it all.

    The Pit dog promoters and protectionists will attempt to push this square peg of a dog into ANY round hole available.

    And it will NEVER truly 'fit'; not with all the pushing in the world.
    February 28 at 7:42pm · Edited · Like · 6
  • Cheryl Brown Agreed Lesley. All service dogs need to be non-reactive and steady, highly intelligent and trainable. The dogs need to come from temperamentally stable lines, dogs bred for calm, even temperaments, and training starts at birth as they are handled and evaluated to determine if they have what is needed, they need to be both calm and assertive, willfully determined and compliant, and strongly rule orientated. The pup must have the instinct to focus on the handler even while being distracted. The pups that make the cut are fostered in private homes for the first year, carefully exposed to various stimulus while receiving basic training. Most pups will wash out, graduates of the foster program are carefully evaluated for compatibility of applicants and formal training begins which averages about a year. On average it costs about $10,000 to produce a service dog. 

    Pit bulls are bred for many reasons except temperament, at least not for calm temperament. They are high energy and excitable and about average when it comes to trainability and intelligence. The current trend for people to take a family pet, teach it a few tricks and call it a service dog increases the risk, creating a situation where potentially unstable dogs are forced into chaotic environments among strangers. 

    The case of the former police officer that was asked to leave a restaurant is an excellent example of a pet being pawned off as a service dog. The manager originally stated the dog growled but has since amended it to "making noises" but all reports indicate that as the dog's handler's became more agitated the dog remained focused on the manager. A true PTSD dog would have been focused on his charge, trying to distract him and failing that would have tried to pull his handler out of the room, away from the stress trigger. This is a pet, perhaps taught to do some tricks, and a potential tragedy waiting to happen.
    February 28 at 9:13pm · Like · 3
  • Lynne Smith Parents need to speak up about this issue, and be proactive in this regard - telling the school board no pit bulls as service dogs before one gets there. Hate to say it, but I think what the cause against fake service dogs needs is a celebrity to bring this issue to the attention of the public.
    February 28 at 9:32pm · Like · 4
  • Lesley Karen Luscombe If any dog gets taken into school for any reason, I, as primary care-giver, want to know about it. I've already made my feelings plain at my son's school. It takes a very special kind of dog to stay calm in a school full of noisy, highly-scented, touchy-feely children, over an extended period. It can challenge the calmest of dogs. Bulldogs are not the right animals in such settings, and I would include hospitals and rest/care homes in that as well. Don't set THEM up for failure, as well as (more importantly) endangering innocent people.
    February 28 at 9:44pm · Like · 4
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